“And late at night whilst on all fours, she used to watch me kiss the floor. What’s wrong with this picture? What’s wrong with this picture?” – Placebo, ‘This Picture’
Imagine you knew nothing about Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito or the brutal murder they are accused of. Take a look at this picture and imagine you were the store owner who saw them in the ‘Bubble’ lingerie shop that day, what do you see?
I see a young couple, kissing and caressing each other and generally acting as if they haven’t a care in the world. I see two people who are deeply sexually attracted to each other and who can’t wait to get home for that ‘hot sex’ the store owner claims he overheard them discussing whilst browsing for and eventually purchasing a camisole and a g-string in his shop. If you imagine they were just another ordinary couple, excited, giggling and petting in your shop you’d be forgiven for muttering about ‘kids these days’ and carrying on with your work, but as Brian Molko would say, what’s wrong with this picture?
24 hours prior to the scenes captured on this CCTV footage, the young couple in the video, had been present when the body of Amanda’s 21 year old housemate Meredith Kercher was discovered in the house they shared with two Italian girls. A few days later the couple were arrested on suspicion of murder and sexual violence.
This picture marks the moment I ‘fell off the fence’ with regard to my own personal views about the the defendants Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito who are currently on trial for their part in the sexual assault and murder of British exchange student Meredith Kercher.
Meredith’s partially clothed body was found concealed by a duvet on the floor of her bedroom on the 2nd November 2007. The medical examiner determined that before death she had most likely been sexually assaulted (by the now convicted Rudy Guede) and tortured with the blade of a 13.4 inch kitchen knife. Her throat had been savagely cut resulting in a slow and painful death.
Furthermore, the evidence suggests that Meredith had been locked in her room to die; her phones were stolen and thrown in a nearby garden to prevent what could have been her only remaining chance to be saved. The medical examiner Luca Lalli stated in a recent closed hearing that Meredith had in all likelihood been attacked by more than one assailant.
The evidence available so far indicates that one or all of the assailants ensured and took pleasure in Meredith Kercher’s suffering during the humiliating attack that resulted in her tragic death. The victim sustained numerous injuries as she was taunted with the knife, forcibly held and fought for her life. There is no doubt in my mind that the victim suffered a horrifying and sustained attack designed to invoke fear and to humiliate.
Motive and group dynamic
As yet the motive remains unclear. In a previous post I suggested that the murder of Meredith Kercher could be categorised as a sex related homicide and possibly one with a rape and/or sodomy motivation with humiliation and domination as a possible motive. This could fit with any number of scenarios including a premeditated plan to rape and/or kill or a ‘game’ designed to frighten or intimidate Meredith which got out of hand.
Both scenarios can be explained by a possible group dynamic or ‘pack mentality’ leading to the deindividuation of group members that could have resulted in the level of violence that night. This is an important point to consider as neither the convicted Rudy Guede nor the defendants Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito have a history of violence.
In this post I also discussed possible roles within the group and a hierarchical structure with one or more of the assailants ‘falling into’ their individual role, one restraining the victim, one sexually assaulting her and the other facing the victim and taunting her with the tip of the knife. It seems likely that each individual had their own reasons for taking part in the attack and that certain fantasies or ideas came into play as a result
Despite the theory that a pack mentality resulted in the level of violence that night I also discussed the idea that this ‘group’ in all likelihood had a leader or a ‘puppet master’ pulling the strings and conducting the show, I suggested that this person was in all likelihood the knife wielder. DNA evidence has implicated Amanda Knox in this role.
The idea that there was a more dominant person in the room that night has troubled me, as has the evidence suggesting the apparent excitement of the defendants Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito in the days following the murder, this coupled with the repeated use of the word in many blogs, news reports and forums and has done nothing to dissuade me that there may have been a sadist in the room that night.
The Sadist
Sadism is the act of deriving pleasure (often sexual) from inflicting or watching the suffering, humiliation or pain of others. The spectrum of sadism is wide and ranges from a person who enjoys dominating a willing partner as part of a healthy sexual relationship, to the more severe end of the spectrum which can include the torture, strangulation, rape or murder of an unwilling ‘participant’. Usually the signs of sexual sadism begin in adolescence or early adulthood. Clinicians charged with treating those at the more dangerous and severe end of the spectrum believe that this type of behaviour is usually chronic and increases in severity over time.
Some have theorised that certain individuals may go on to demonstrate sadistic tendencies as the result of a fragile childhood fraught with tension, abuse or violence, it could be argued that the uncertainty or powerlessness felt by these individual during times that are crucial to their individual development, could result in an attempt to compensate by being strong and tough to avoid feeling vulnerable, out of control or abandoned, the construction of these compensating drives could mingle with sexual ideas or fantasies during adolescence and early adulthood. This in turn could lead to a desire to dominate, control or humiliate others and derive sexual pleasure from it.
Research by Grey et al (2003) has indicated that all sorts of people from all walks of life engage in what is sometimes referred to as’ deviant sexual fantasising’, studies have also reported no significant gender differences in the frequency of sadistic sexual fantasies.
Some researchers believe certain childhood indicators could be linked to the development of deviant sexual fantasies in adolescence or early adulthood, some of these indicators include daydreaming, headaches, nightmares, poor body image, phobias and isolation. Behaviour indicators in adolescence and early adulthood include chronic masturbation, chronic lying and rebelliousness.
Some people who experience deviant sexual fantasies can later go on to act upon them, some may do so with a willing partner and some may go on to sexually assault, abuse or even kill. Possible behavioural indicators for sexual murder later in life, outlined by Burgess et al (1986) have also been seen in a non-offending group who also experienced deviant sexual fantasies.
In other words, attempting to pin-point whether deviant sexual fantasising is linked to behavioural clues in childhood or adolescence is too reductionist, people are so different and may go on to act on these sexual fantasies for different reasons and in different ways. It’s not always possible to tell who will act on these fantasies and if they do, who will take them too far and who will enjoy them as part of a healthy sex life.
Indeed, in certain cases it seems that the severity of these types of deviant sexual fantasies only becomes apparent when someone gets hurt or killed. It may also be the case that these fantasies and the desire to act upon them are only awakened upon an encounter or interaction with another human being who is or who the individual believes is a willing ‘partner’ in the fantasy.
Several female killers have reportedly been ‘drawn in’ to the world of BDSM and played along with or shared intimate sexual fantasies with a partner they later assisted in rape and murder. Myra Hindley is one example, Karla Homolka another.
A sadist in the room?
The evidence available so far indicates that the objective of the attack may have been to humiliate, dominate or control Meredith, possibly with the objective of ‘softening her up’ for a sexual assault or rape. Another possibility is the idea that they wanted to frighten Meredith and things got out of hand very quickly, these are just two of a number of scenarios put forward by various individuals following the case as to how the attack came about, but one factor remains constant and unchallengeable; the attack on Meredith was extremely brutal and sadistic.
Evidence of prolonged humiliation/suffering of the victim:
The evidence suggests that during the attack, the victim ceased to be a human being to the assailants and merely became a toy with which to do as they pleased. Evidence suggesting that the victim was subjected to an attack designed to control/dominate/humiliate and/or prolong her fear and suffering includes:
- Injuries consistent with being forcibly and very roughly restrained
- Some of the victim’s clothes were removed
- Evidence of sexual assault (possible rape motive)
- Knife wounds indicating she was taunted and tortured prior to death
- Manual strangulation
- Extremely violent slow and painful death (overkill)
- The victim was locked away to die alone and in pain
- The victim was denied any chance to call for help by having her lifeline (the phones) removed
Bruising to the victim’s lips as well as injuries to her neck and throat suggests any pleas and cries for help or mercy went unnoticed or were disregarded. The victim was completely under the control of the assailants. It could be argued that the injuries sustained by the victim increased as a result of her attempting to free herself from their grasp, as the evidence suggests this could be the case it could also be argued that the aim of the attack was to make Meredith submissive to the individual ‘needs’ or ‘desires’ of the group. For Rudy this could have been the desire to have sex with Meredith, for Amanda and Raffaele this could have been the desire to see her humiliated and frightened.
Evidence to suggest the assailants may have derived sexual pleasure from the humiliation and suffering of the victim
The evidence of a group dynamic leading to this level of violence sadly does not surprise me. In many cases of group initiated violence the victim suffers injuries above and beyond what is necessary to kill, this is referred to by law enforcement agencies as overkill. However, one of the most tragic and horrific aspects of this case is the brutal and degrading final hour of Meredith’s life as the result of an act I am convinced was designed and executed to ensure total suffering, control and humiliation, this fact is crucial in terms of understanding the etiology of this crime.
Rudy Guede
Despite having taken part in a brutal and senseless crime against another human being I do not believe Rudy Guede was sexually aroused by what he saw that night, in fact I believe he was sat on the toilet having ‘bottled it’, probably unable to ‘perform’. He did not call for an ambulance; he did not attempt to save the victim instead he ran like a coward, but I suspect that his motivation for running was cowardice rather than the enjoyment of ensuring the victim suffered. Rudy Guede deserves his 30 year sentence and so far he has done nothing to bring closure to the victims long suffering family yet I do not believe he was the instigator or ‘puppet master’ that night. He is to put it plainly, too much of a coward.
Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito
During the attack
The suspected murder weapon contains Amanda’s DNA on the handle of the knife and the victims DNA on this tip; this suggests that Amanda wielded the knife, tortured and eventually killed Meredith Kercher. The crime reconstruction has suggested that Raffaele restrained Meredith and if this is the case it was he that caused the bruises on her arms and lips as well as the broken hyoid bone in her neck. It could also have been Raffaele that attempted to strangle the victim. The crime reconstruction, supported by forensic evidence, has placed AK and RS firmly at the centre of this crime in an attack designed to ensure Meredith was humiliated, afraid and suffering.
If the motive for the attack was just to frighten Meredith how and why did things go this far? If the motive was to sexually assault the victim why did she sustain injuries consistent with torture? Torturing the victim would have no logical role in either the ‘game’ or the ‘rape’ scenario and therefore we could conclude that the person wielding the knife gained some sort of enjoyment from the reaction of the victim to the injuries being inflicted.
Similarly it seems that the victim was overly and very forcibly restrained. It could be argued that the presence of the knife would have been sufficient to ensure ‘compliance’, Meredith bravely fought for her life and I believe the victim was informed of her imminent ‘fate’ resulting in a struggle and an increase in the level of violence to ensure she was at all times under the assailants control.
The evidence suggests that AK and RS were present when Meredith was sexually assaulted and it could be argued that it was the knowledge of this assault that resulted in the crime scene being staged to look like a rape in order to lead investigators to focus on the evidence they knew would implicate Guede. No DNA evidence has been found which suggests that AK and RS sexually assaulted Meredith but the evidence does suggest they watched. It is certainly possible that they gained some sort of twisted pleasure from watching Meredith suffer this terrible indignity.
After the murder
Following the discovery of the body AK and RS aroused the suspicion of the investigating officers and those close to Meredith by acting inappropriately. Testimony from several of Meredith’s English friends and others has indicated that Amanda and Raffaele displayed overtly sexualised behaviour in the police station following the discovery of the body. They allegedly kissed, cuddled, hugged, whispered and pulled faces at each other, at one point Amanda put her feet on Raffaele and sat on his lap. In the hours following the discovery of the body this behaviour indicates they were in some way aroused.
When one of Meredith’s English friends expressed the wish that Meredith didn’t suffer, Amanda allegedly informed her that Meredith had “f*****g bled to death” before being so kind as to inform the horrified girl that Meredith “would have died slowly and in a lot of pain.” I find it hard to believe that anyone could interpret this statement as anything other than callous and disgusting, given the information we have now and the evidence that suggests her own involvement it seems Amanda may have derived some sort of pleasure from the reaction to it. Amanda seemed excited at the police station and informed another of Meredith’s English friends that she could fill her in on any details she needed to know. Amanda seemed ‘proud of finding the body’ even though the officers later testified she hadn’t been able to see into the room.
The following day the couple were seen in the ‘Bubble’ lingerie store kissing, hugging, petting, laughing and seemingly having a whale of a time. Amanda bought a camisole top and a g-string, they discussed the ‘hot sex’ they were going to have once they got back to Raffaele’s apartment. The store owner clearly thought their conduct in the store that day was suspicious enough to alert the police who catalogued it alongside the mounting circumstantial evidence of inappropriate behaviour.
Two days after the murder Amanda sent an email to 23 of her family and friends making crude references to the blood in the bathroom possibly being from ‘menstrual issues’ Meredith was having, she also discussed how the police had asked her if Meredith liked anal sex and if she ever used Vaseline. I find it hard to believe that these are reasonable things to write under any circumstance and certainly not considering the subject of the email, they are deeply personal and it could be argued that Amanda enjoyed the further indignity to Meredith by sharing it with her friends and family as if it was meaningless gossip.
This callous and sexualised post crime behaviour must have seen particularly chilling when more evidence came to light and the two were arrested.
Sexually Deviant Fantasies?
Amanda’s short story ‘Baby Brother’ contains references to a rapist. She also wrote to a former boyfriend discussing how she wanted to watch and put some porn ‘into practice’ with him. Though the sex with a stranger on a train and the presence of the vibrator in the bathroom seems like ‘nothing’ it does help to paint the picture of a sexually vivacious young woman who quickly began a very intense relationship with a quiet and possibly disturbed young man.
Similarly Raffaele does not appear to be out of the ordinary with regard to his sexual tastes, he was a virgin when he met Amanda who enjoyed violent manga, watched some extreme pornography (what young man hasn’t?) and collected knives, this could have led to some deviant sexual fantasies but as the literature indicates these are perfectly normal for both men and women.
It does seem that AK and RS became sexually obsessed with each other very quickly and upon meeting Amanda allegedly spent virtually every night with him. Though it is not clear what the motive for the attack on Meredith was, it could be suggested that humiliation or a desire to control and inflict suffering was conscious or unconscious factor. They could have shared sexual fantasies or brought out something in each other that they had not acted on previously, had not anticipated or thought they could control.
If this is the case and one or both of the defendants were acting upon dormant sexually deviant fantasies that night it could help to explain the humiliation and suffering Meredith endured and the strange sexualised post crime behaviour that disturbed so many.
April 9, 2009 at 10:10 am
As I have said before I lost a friend two days before Meredith’s death- my boyfriend witnessed the accident. We have a very healthy sex life but for weeks after the incident the most I could do was hold his hand, stroke his arm maybe- it was inconcievable that we would lean into each other the way this picture portrays Amanda and Raff doing. We too had to go shopping for necessities (I had had to rush to his from work without stopping at mine, at the time I lived an hour away) We bought basic food and a five pack of undies from tesco- plain pants just to get by until we felt able to make the drive back. As I have said before also, it was an accident that killed our friend. If it had been a murder I think I can say for certain there would be even more devastation and lack of libido in the following weeks.
Whilst this picture cannot prove they were there, they do seem to be highly ‘sexed’ up and what Amanda bought is completely at odds with what she needed. If they didn’t get a sadistic kick from actually being there, I would say they both seem to have got a kick out of the death. No one can argue that these aren’t two very strange people- murderers or not.
Again I just have to say that I hope Mez did find peace in her last moments- if she realised she wasn’t going to get help I hope she could remember the love of her family and the knowledge that she lived her life as a good kind person. And the hope that whoever killed her would be found and punished.
April 9, 2009 at 10:54 pm
I have followed Miss Representative’s various illuminating forays into the psychological aspects of this case with fascination and appreciation. I very much want to understand what has to happen to people for them to get to the point of committing such acts. This new article makes the point that neither Guede nor the two defendants have a history of violence. But would we necessarily know? At many points while following the unraveling of this tragedy I have wondered whether past violence or sexual abuse done to those responsible for the kind of sadistic attack suffered by Miss Kercher could act as a trigger in certain circumstances. I’d be grateful for any further thoughts, elaboration on childhood/adolescent abuse and whether that can be a factor in this kind of crime.
April 10, 2009 at 12:14 am
remove this address and info.
April 10, 2009 at 12:46 am
Ana
I share your thoughts and concerns. We have just seen a case in the UK in the last three days that does make you understand the behaviour of some murderers, to some extent. Two young boys have just been charged with attempted murder. They are aged 10 and 11. They attacked two other boys aged 9 and 11. One of them is in intensive care. What is apparent in the background of such children is a history of abuse and parental neglect on a scale it is hard to imagine. These children had been placed in foster care, but it was clearly too late. Their real mother did not attend court with them and replied to enquirers that it was ‘nowt to do with her’. Such cases can be clearly seen to illustrate how early childhood neglect, a total lack of moral boundaries and a failure to impart the concept of right from wrong impacts on young minds. Children are not born bad. In ten/eleven years something has gone radically wrong with these children.
Amanda and Sollecito do not fall into this profile. They have imperfect, but not abusive backgrounds. Their parents are loving and supportive, not unintelligent. Disruption in AK’s family and the early death of RS’s mother are disturbing incidents, but neither would suggest a trigger for murderous intent. I think it is clear that this murder does not fit neatly into any category. If AK and RS are guilty, as much of the evidence points towards (though not all), then it is indeed an anomaly we will grapple to understand. It would not be without precedent, but it would be unusual from a psychological standpoint. I too would welcome Miss Represented’s thoughts on seemingly normal kids committing murder.
April 10, 2009 at 12:55 am
With reference to the above case, I think it is hard for normal, decent people to comprehend the level of neglect that some children experience. Anger, humiliation, physical violence, sexual abuse from a very young age does have a biological/chemical impact on a child’s mind – i/e it literally ‘rewires’ them. Brain scans have shown and proved this. They are literally brain ‘damaged’. This is the reason why victims of child abuse can sometimes become child abusers themselves. The damage is much deeper than many realise. A difficult group to sympathise with, I agree (I struggle) but very often beneath the surface is an abused child. It is self perpetuating. With experience in social work it is difficult to explain these things to people who are not. It is so fraught with emotion. But someone has to work with them. It’s a sick and dangerous world out there if you’re from the wrong side of the tracks.
That is what is interesting about this case. They don’t fit any kind of profile I am familiar with. Thoughts please MR and shy reader????
April 10, 2009 at 2:22 am
Hi Bard,
We don’t know whether Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito had abusive backgrounds or not. We don’t even know whether their parents are loving and supportive. Edda Mellas had to go to court on several occasions to collect child support from Curt Knox. It’s shocking that Curt Knox was not willing to provide financial support for his ex-wife and two children. Would you say Curt is loving and supportive?
Chris Mellas, Amanda Knox’s step-father described Amanda and Deanna as “shitheads” on his MySpace page. Amanda Knox complained about her step-father to several friends and expressed worries about her mother’s relationship with him shortly before Meredith was murdered. It doesn’t seem that Chris Mellas was loving or supportive either.
Very little is known about Raffaele Sollecito’s upbringing. If you have any evidence to show that his parents were loving and supportive, please share it with us.
Raffale Sollecito’s father attempted to intefere with the investigation into Meredith Kercher’s murder.
The following conversation was recorded by the Italian police who had tapped Dr Franco Sollecito’s telephone conversations:
“We’ve got to flay the Perugia flying squad”
“If we can get rid of the head of homicide and that other one, we’ll be OK.”
It doesn’t seem that Raffaele Sollecito’s father has set a very good example to his son.
April 10, 2009 at 10:25 am
I agree with all your points Harry Rag. (incidently I love the way you always pop up on other sites directing people to PMF and TJMK wherever this case is discussed. It’s brilliant!)
Yes, I agree that the childhoods are not ideal. Lots of men default on welfare payments. It is neither loving nor supportive. But lots of Mums never tell the children that this is happening so they are not hurt. Curt does not sound like the ideal father. But nor, from what I have seen of him, does he appear to be an abusive character – he has defended Amanda vociferously as one would expect a normal parent to behave. Before I get shot down for saying that, what I mean is that his behaviour, whilst not perfect, does not appear deviant – whereas the mother of the two boys I mentioned above not accompanying them to court, does. Along with her other actions the picture is one of gross parental neglect and indifference.
Chris Mellas seems like a less that perfect influence on the family. I agree that his behavior is not impressive (boasting about getting drunk with Amanda on his web page etc) He did refer to Amanda and her sister using those words, but did add ‘…but I love them anyway’. Not perfect, no. He is an immature character, without doubt and of limited intelligence it seems, judging from his actions in Perugia recently. Disruptive, disturbing yes. Amanda may well hate him. But this is not an unusual situation. Lots of kids hate their step parents.
Edda Mellas struck me as a normal mum from the interviews I have seen. I feel rather sorry for her. She seems to have no idea of the weight of evidence against her daughter and I suspect this is deliberate. I have seen her tearfully express feelings of intense regret about Meredith’s family. And I have seen Curt express the same feelings. No, they’re not perfect, but few people are. Nor do they seem to fit the profile of grossly negligent parents in the clinical sense. Amanda was successful enough to complete studies and travel abroad. Ditto RS. They are not dysfunctional in that sense.
My point really was simply that compared to the brutally deprived childhoods of other young killers, these two do not seem to have had that beginning. Raffaele’s father was dispicable in his actions, I agree. But some people will do almost anything to defend their children. There are many cases of this wherever you look. It means they are not setting a good example, yes. But it is not a sign of gross deprivation or abuse.
I know nothing of the deeper backgrounds of these two, of course and I could be totally wrong. Emotional abuse can lead to all sorts of complex problems. I was merely comparing the backgrounds of children who one might say were ‘accidents waiting to happen’ to these two. Just a discussion point!
April 10, 2009 at 4:36 pm
Hi Bard,
The recent case in the UK is absolutely terrible, but I don’t think that it should ever be a point of reference.
In the “normal”, middle-class environment where children are fed, clothed, read to, sent to school etc, I am afraid that I do not think a delusional parent can be considered a good parent.
Curt has defended Amanda in a completely irrational way (just remember how he was repeatedly wording his defence of her: other people’s accounts were incorrect perceptions and Amanda’s account was what had really happened). He defended her against any reason.
Edda’s sudden arrival and presence in Perugia made it effectively impossible for Amanda to confess. As recently as a few weeks ago she was coming up with some completely delusional stories when interviewed on American TV.
In an early interview Edda “sympathised” with Meredith’s parents in a terribly phoney way, not on the account of Meredith’s death, but because of the alleged alcohol level in her blood and her alleged promiscuity. Like mother like daughter: Amanda circulated the story about a flatmate’s one-night stand with a handyman and we know what she wrote about Meredith in her infamous e-mail to friends and family.
Parents know or should know their children. I am convinced that there were many tell- tale signs in Amanda’s behaviour in Seattle (even a co-worker testified to Amanda’s awkwardness), but self-preoccupied Edda and Curt missed them all. Instead of getting some professional help for her early on and hopefully in time, they sent her to Italy as a bomb ready to explode or truly “an accident waiting to happen”.
Now when it is clear that Amanda has lied repeatedly, they are not only not helping her, but they are directly preventing her from facing the truth and without facing the truth will be the first step of her healing.
I can sympathise with Edda’s and Curt’s current situation, but their behaviour makes it very difficult to sympathise with them as people when I see Amanda, at least in part, as their victim.
April 10, 2009 at 8:40 pm
This blog is the most ridiculous thing I have ever read. It is time for every one of you to give your head a good shake.
I have read about this speculation and that speculation. “They were there”, “this is the timeline”, blah, blah, blah. All I can say is LETS SEE THE EVIDENCE!
MOTIVE – What is the motive, and spare me the fiction about satanic cults, kinky sex orgies etc. Where is the evidence that there was ever any previous discussions, arrangements, comments, or anything else where AK or RS either together or in their own separate lives discussed, fantasized or even thought about a group sex orgy. RG was a 23 year old virgin a week before this tragedy happened.
THE PERPUTRATORS – Where is the evidence that RS even knew RG? Where is the evidence that AK had any interaction with RG. Where is the evidence that they made arrangements to meet? No phone calls, no emails, no witnesses. The whole scenario is make believe and was put forward way too early in the investigation. It is apparent from the press at the time that whole group sex, satanic cult scenario was created almost immediately by the Prosecutor and released immediately to the press. Then they made an attempt to try and find facts to fit their premise. My God should it not be the other way around!
DNA – You expect us to believe that AK taunts, assaults and kills MK but leaves no fingerprints, no DNA in the room where the murder was conducted, no physical evidence at all? You point to a woman’s shoe print size 36 – 38 as evidence; well that narrows it down to what, probably 300 million women. AK’s DNA, not from blood, is found on the faucet mixed with Meredith’s blood. It’s her house, it’s where she lives! Oh and of course the bra clasp. Take a look at photos in OGGI showing the difference in the crime scene. It is a fiasco, evidence stacked up, items moved. The credibility of DNA evidence is entirely dependent on the reliability of its collection. There is no possible way one could apply that requirement to this amateurish attempt over 40 days after the murder. The murder weapon, it is claimed, has the DNA of MK on it. First, it is not blood DNA, second it’s reading is an RFU of 41 at its highest peak, below the international accepted level of 50, (which even at level is considered low and suspect). Third, the sampling is so microscopic that a subsequent test is impossible.
CONFESSION – You have two very scared kids in an interrogation, no Lawyers present, no parents present. They are being told they are lying, being told they’re going to jail for thirty years, one barely speaks Italian, both being yelled at. They are probably terrified and in denial that this could be happening to them and they subsequently breakdown and start rambling. How could you not expect otherwise. My instincts tell me that many of the comments on this site come from people who have no children and little experience with the young. If you did you would better understand the dynamics.
THE CLEAN UP – The infamous clean up. AK and RS are supposed to have spent the evening removing all evidence of their participation in the murder. Please, SHOW ME THE EVIDENCE! Where are the bloody rags, where are the bloody shoes, where are the bloody pales and mops (you can be sure the authorities took a close look at the pale and mop they had with them.) Show me … show me, where is the evidence of their involvement in a clean up? Oh yes of course, the shop-keeper, AK comes in early, looks around and doesn’t buy anything, now that’s evidence.
MULTIPLE ATTACKERS – The most experienced forensic pathologist in Italy states after reviewing the evidence that there was only one attacker. Again, an attempt to fit facts to a scenario created in a Prosecutor’s mind.
TIMELINE – Show me the evidence where RS and AK after finishing watching Amelie, decide “Well Honey now that I don’t have to work and you don’t have to go to the Train Station, let’s go out and kill somebody”. In the span of 61 minutes they are suppose to leave the apartment (making sure to pack the murder weapon), walk across town, go look for and find RG somewhere in city, (as they have no means of contacting him), go to the house, taunt, rape and kill beautiful Meredith and then flee and dispose of the phones.
MURDER WEAPON – Where is it? They don’t have it. The much talked about kitchen knife does not match the outline of the only factual evidence of the murder weapon as seen on the sheets of the bed. Is not compatible with at least two of the three wounds on MK. Show me the weapon, show me the evidence!
BEHAVIOUR – You have a 23 year old kid who just had sex for the first time a week prior. Obviously he has not had a successful track record with women. And the fact that people find it suspicious that he can’t keep his hands of his first lover. Come on! Then there is a 20 year old girl who until a year prior had no lovers and no boyfriends and very little self-confidence in her sexuality. Because she expresses her feelings and enjoys the company of her new boyfriend in a time of stress she is branded a murderer. Think back to when you were that age! Think back about the feelings you when you were with your first lover.
THE ALIBI – The Authorities say AK and RS have no alibi for that evening. They say the last human interaction with RS’s computer was at 9:10 pm. How do they know that? They fried their hard drives! Only two of the five computers taken in during the investigation have had any data retrieved and only then after having to reconstruct the circuit boards after having first destroyed them. Perhaps AK or RS were playing Hearts on AK’s laptop, but we will never know, the investigators destroyed the evidence.
THE MURDERER – They have him. He’s in jail. RG admits to being in the house at the time of the murder, RG’s shoe print is found at the murder location, RG’s DNA is all over the place including internally in the body, RG flees the country, RG arrested just prior to the Meredith’s murder in Milan in a break-in at a school, he has with him a knife. And this is not enough for you? He did it for God Sake.
And regarding your discussions on this site about possible incest within the Knox family. You should be ashamed. You do not know them and you have not met them, you are only publishing your wild speculations. It would be fitting to have this site subpoenaed, have them trace you, sue you and take your house for slander.
The back and forth banter between bloggers, none of whom have any first-hand knowledge of the facts is ludicrous. On studying this case I continually came across the same individuals on almost every site, Miss R, Harry Rag, etc. Get a life people. A really scary thought is it appears that these people are well-educated, articulate and quite intelligent. If individuals of this sophistication and intelligence are professing the absurd than we really do live in a frightening time.
Meredith Kercher appears to have been a beautiful, caring, loving individual. Her loss is a great tragedy that cannot be expressed in words. As a parent, I cannot imagine it. It would be, without a doubt, the most devastating thing that could possibly happen. This cannot be understated. I do not believe that I would have the strength to recover if found in similar circumstances. I feel for them and my heart and soul is with them.
But another tragedy is in the making, a tragedy of justice.
Happy Easter Everyone.
April 11, 2009 at 4:38 am
As the trial is still in it’s early stages with a lot more evidence to come, I can only speculate based on what we think the rest of the evidence will be. That being said so far the degree of inconstancies in Amanda and Raff’s alibi leads me to think that they are guilty.
I have difficulty seeing their upbringing as a causality. I was born and raised in an area of great social and economic deprivation, both of my parents worked full time so both my sisters and I were largely self caring from an early age. The phrase coined at the time ( 60′s -70′s) was latch key children. no one would have been surprised if we had gone off the rails but both my sisters gained work at with a bank while I followed my father into the forces not so much through family tradition but due to lack of qualifications and living in an area of high unemployment.
I served for eleven years and left with issues (PTSD), I could have spent the rest of my life watching the world through the bottom of a whiskey bottle but I chose not to. I went into further and higher education, gaining a BA, BSc AND an MA . I am a qualified , registered and have been an approved social worker with powers under the mental health act. I’m currently a project co-ordinator in supported living with care leavers.I’m not showing off these are just the facts. I’m where I am because of the choices I made.
Both Amanda and Raff had in comparison a privileged upbringing. Amanda’s parents divorced that’s hardly unusual, Raff’s mother died, that’s sad but again not exactly rare. Had they both been from the wrong side of the tracks there could be some explanation but they didn’t. They didn’t have to go to school in hand me downs and ill fitting shoes. At nineteen they were at university, my biggest memory of being nineteen was scrubbing my mate Christy’s blood and brain tissue off of my uniform and I can remember it like it was yesterday.
I work with kids who have had similar childhoods to mine and I don’t accept their excuses for their behaviour because they are making choices, right or wrong they are still choices. There are any number of theories that can explain why Amanda and Raff killed Meredith and I applaud MR for the quality of her work which I have enjoyed reading but I believe they did it because they chose to and believed they could get away with it.
Amanda and Raff weren’t feral children with a significant childhood trauma they are a couple of privileged young adults who just think they can do what they like and lie there way out of it because they have parents who will support them regardless of the facts. In fact their parents typify the not my child attitude that is prevalent today.
The parents aren’t afraid that their children may be guilty, I believe they know that already what they fear is their children being convicted and how it will reflect on them. Society has gone past the point where committing a crime is wrong it is being caught out that is seen as wrong.
A couple of weeks ago a woman was jailed for three years in Liverpool for attempting to pervert the course of justice. She covered for her son who had shot an eleven year old dead. Google Rhys Jones for the details, she pleaded not guilty in spite of the evidence and the fact that she knew he was guilty. Amanda’s and Raff’s parents are just the same they would rather cry foul than have thier comfortable middle class life styles upset.
I believe that Amanda gave the game away when she described how Meredith died to one of Merediths friends ( bleeding to death painfully and slowly) this was because she was stabbed in the neck rather than having her throat cut which would have been tankfully quicker,I actually do know the mechanics of this. She knew too much because she was there, it was before the autopsy and determination of cause of death.
What really gauls me is that they took Merediths money after they had killed her. That was not part of a faked burlary it was because Meredith did not count anymore.
I have spent my day with kid’s whose back grounds could only be described as catastophic, they spend most of their time either smoking skunk or getting the money to buy it. Guess what none of them have killed anyone and they don’t have any amnesia around what they did to get the money. Amanda and Raff have no excuse and I sincerly hope that justice is served and they rot in prison for a long time.
I apologise for going on a bit but I have made two mistakes tonight, firstly I had a bit too much to drink, secondly I read the comments on Perugia shock and Italian woman at the table. I’m thoughrly sick of the appologists, Amanda and Raff made a choice and Meredith died, I don’t think the judges in Italy have got it wrong or that there is a conspiracy, I think two spoiled middle class brats are trying to get away with murder.
count to ten and breath
April 11, 2009 at 12:02 pm
notreadytomakenice :
I agree with most of your comments thank you for speaking up. The incest speculations are irresponsible. What bothers me is the over the top speculations to fit the crime, and giving Rudy the benefit of the doubt.
April 11, 2009 at 1:26 pm
Hey Guys, interesting comments as always and sorry for the late replies I’ve been pretty busy the last few days.
To Ana and The Bard, as you say lots of things about case do not fit into any particular theory or category which is in part what makes it so interesting. A few months ago I had a comment from Dr Michael Welner an eminent forensic psychiatrist in the US who had this to say:
“All of my academic background and experience in this area of tragedy reinforces my impression that anyone is capable of anything, so long as they have the physical wherewithal. So many times have I seen cases that “never happened before.” And then I saw them happen.”
When I first started reading about the case I had my own reservations about the likelihood of these two committing murder, but if you look under the surface it really isn’t hard to see that they are both troubled kids and as Dr Welner said, people are capable of anything. I think it would be a mistake to use common schemas about ‘people that kill and where they come from’ when trying to analyse this case but I agree, a lot of people have and will continue to believe the ridiculous notion that we are entirely guided by our background. Society has done an excellent job of creating the unshakable idea that only poor, underprivileged kids commit crime and that wealthy, middle class kids don’t. This is a common misconception and parents are often the worst culprits.
It’s easy to give your kid whatever they want, let them eat dinner on the floor watching TV, allow the Nintendo Wii or DS to educate them and basically give them free reign to do as they please, easier than actually spending time with and educating children about what is wrong and what is right, instead our children are being taught ‘do whatever you like as long as its legal, if it’s not legal don’t get caught because we don’t have enough money to let you get away with it’.
The old phrase that should be carved into the back of every child’s mind: how would it feel if it was done to me’, has sadly been forgotten and children now believe that they can do whatever they like whenever they like, nobody will challenge them for it, nobody will tell them not to and everybody will crowd around and bleat when something goes horribly wrong. Worse still when someone gets killed, the same parents who decided it was okay to let their ‘spoiled little ray of sunshine who can do no wrong’, float around Italy for a year completely unsupervised with the basic intention of doing seven fifths of five eights of f**k all, are knocked sideways when it suddenly emerges that said little ray of sunshine who can do no wrong has, surprise, surprise, done something wrong.
It might sound completely outrageous but in all honesty, their background really isn’t that important, what is important is the evidence suggesting they took part in the brutal murder of a lovely young lady who had her whole life in front of her. It may sound cruel and inappropriate from a person that spends time reading about the links between abuse and crime in journals, but I really don’t want to give Amanda any more reasons or excuses that will put a further barrier up between her and the truth, I really believe she is a skilled manipulator. Think how many people have been robbed of the chance to spend time with or even meet Meredith: Her family, friends, Giacomo, future lovers, friends, colleagues she may even have had her own children, then decide if you want to give Amanda any more ammunition with which to lie.
With regard to a profile it’s hard to say, Amanda and Raffaele fit more than a handful of profiles I am familiar with, NPD comes to mind, so does borderline psychopathy but these are of course my own ideas and in no way constitute a diagnosis, I’d be very interested to find out more about the psych analysis of AK and RS and I expect my ideas would not be too far off.
I do not believe Amanda has suffered any kind of abuse, she may have had a rough time when her parents divorced and Mellas came along but I don’t exactly think it was earth shattering, the Knox/Mellas family are not on trial here and despite their conduct it really isn’t fair for people to insinuate sexual abuse may have taken place. Amanda seems like the kind of young woman that made her own choices and as the old phrase says: you made your bed, now lie in it.
Notreadytomakenice: I’m not ready to make nice either.
I enjoy the comments on this site and am glad to say I rarely get anyone here with quite so obvious an agenda as yours. If this blog is the most ridiculous thing you have ever read perhaps take your long winded and recycled FOA talking points elsewhere. I have no interest in discussing these talking points further as they have been regurgitated so often they are beginning to grate. Go share them with Candace or Frank. I host this blog and spend a great deal of time reading and researching my posts, I’m sorry you don’t like them but others do, you could at least try and be polite but you people never are so I don’t see why I should bother trying to be nice back.
I have no interest in hearing about how poor Amanda was interrogated for 14 hours with no food or water and hit on the back of the head waa-waa-waa, this statement is untrue, as is your assertion that I keep popping up on loads of other sites, I very rarely comment on others sites preferring instead to sit back and enjoy the interesting discussion on TJMK and PMF I have never advertised or posted links to my own site anywhere on the internet. I think your comments about Harry Rag were also rude and unnecessary, I’m sorry you think we should ‘get a life’ for championing the voice of the victim in this case Meredith Kercher. You sir, are as sensitive and logical as a houseplant.
Your threats are utterly pointless. It would be very hard to trace me and I don’t own a house.
Do you profess to have firsthand knowledge of the case? Do you have a copy of the 10,000 pages of evidence? No? Then please don’t presume to accuse others of being misinformed about the facts. If you do have access to this information, I wonder what you think you are achieving here. The discussions over at TJMK and PMF are not banter.
I have always taken a firm stance on the discussion of possible abuse in the Knox/Mellas household as I do not think it is necessary to discuss these issues. Unlike Candace Dempsey I will not delete or alter posts to suit my own agenda or that of other people, when I see these comments I do my best to dissuade those from pressing the issue further.
April 11, 2009 at 4:15 pm
“long winded”, Miss R? That’s like the pot calling the kettle black.
April 11, 2009 at 6:37 pm
Hello Miss Represented,
A prim lass should never deign to mud-wrestle with an Amandroid like notreadytomakenice. Don’t you know that once an Amandroid is injured, it emits a stench which attracts many others of these creatures to a website. It is sort of like the banana-smelling pheromone that bees emits with their sting, which vigorously attracts other bees to the defense of the hive. It is better to move gently and ignore them the way a bee charmer does. Long after AK47, Knifeman, and The Patsy are convicted, the Amandroids will still mumble, zombie-like, their claims that AK47 is innocent because the camera loves her and she had never killed anyone before.
Your thesis “A Sadist in the Room?” makes me think that your fine analytical mind is getting close to solving the true puzzle of this murder (i.e., Why?). If I may suggest two perspectives to fuel your inquiry: (1) don’t focus on AK47, her Knifeman, or The Patsy they used in an attempt to escape responsibility for MK’s murder. In my opinion, AK47 planned the whole “party” and its outcome beforehand. She may have told her smitten folie a deux partner some of the details of the upcoming night’s events, but I don’t think he knew the final solution. As party favors, he brought the knives and The Patsy brought the drugs they wanted MK to partake. In my opinion, the three of them committed the crime as a pack and it is not nearly as important as how, but Why AK47 decided to kill MK and enlisted her two minions to make it happen;(2) The key to understanding this murder is figuring out who MK really was as a flesh-and-blood woman. The Canonizers will never discover the motive for her murder. To put it succinctly, what did MK do in only a few weeks that made AK47 become obsessed with minutely planning the perfect crime, from her twisted perspective. How do you get an utterly self-absorbed narcissist so freaking angry with you that she wants to murder you? In many murders, the victim is an object, nothing more, to the murderer. This case is very different because the autopsy results suggest torture, humiliation, and over-kill. It was a horrible, twisted passion play.
I have some ideas of what I think occurred between MK and AK47 during the blush of their time together as new friends. Something with cultural exhilaration and trying on new faces.
Dion: [with a terrible composure] “No! That is merely the appearance, not the truth! Brown loves me! He loves me because I have always possessed the power he needed for love, because I am love!”
The Great God Brown
Eugene O’Neill 1926
April 11, 2009 at 7:22 pm
Miss Represented,
I enjoy reading your informed thoughts on this blog. I do not have anything to add to this excellent blog, but wonder: why is it that the people who defend Knox all seem so angry and threatening? The bullying, name calling, the threatening to sue, etc. All directed towards people trying to have a civil discussion of the facts regarding this very interesting case. From what I have read from these so called friends of
Knox I have to assume they are quite aggresive. A clue into her world?
April 12, 2009 at 5:35 pm
Hey Pat, welcome and thanks for your comment,
I’m afraid I can’t disagree with your assertion about Ms Knox’s supporters. Though some of them have the ability to be polite and enable discussion from both sides of the ‘fence’ to take place, there are a great many more that stomp over to a place of discussion and attempt to divert the conversation by being hostile or repeating FOA talking points over and over again, eventually the host/hostess/other readers grow tired of attempting to disarm their hostility with logic and facts and just ignore them. Eventually these people get tired of being ignored and end up endlessly bleating about the precise wording of the text message Amanda sent to Patrick on the night of the murder over at Candace’s blog or they end up at Frank’s cess pit, repeatedly calling prominent commenters/moderators/admins over at PMF ‘halotards’, posting personal information about Skeptical Bystander or dedicating songs to Frank via You Tube URL’s.
Some of these friends of Amanda can argue a moot point until they are blue in the face and in doing so they usually achieve their objective of preventing any kind of intelligent discussion taking place.
Greggy wrote: In many murders, the victim is an object, nothing more, to the murderer. This case is very different because the autopsy results suggest torture, humiliation, and over-kill. It was a horrible, twisted passion play.
I both agree and disagree with this point, on the one hand we could say that the passion play made sure that Meredith was more than an object and on the other hand we could say she was tortured and humiliated because she was objectified by the assailants. Determining which of these it is could be rather difficult as no motive has yet been established. Offenders who torture and humiliate their victims often feel no attachment to them and objectify them in order to complete their ‘fantasy’. There came a point when Meredith ceased to be a person and became an object it is this same, terrible detachment that can be seen in the calm and methodical mind that rearranged the crime scene.
When attempting to understand these types of violent sexual homicide we should always ask the question: what need does the offender serve by killing? Release of anger, sexual frustration, fulfilment of a sexual fantasy, etc.
And that’s where I’m kinda stuck.
April 13, 2009 at 1:56 am
I’m stuck there, too. I can only speculate on what would drive AK47 to “need” to murder MK. It’s bizarre that someone would want to extinguish the life of a person they had only known such a short time, unless they perceived that their own continued existence depended on it. Or maybe it was only a sensory experiment by two shallow narcissists who wanted to fulfill their extreme fantasies and desires. Perhaps they perceived MK as a highly desired person during the early stages of the night but then she became an object to be disposed of during the later stages of the night echoing Nietzsche’s harsh aphorism: “In the end, one loves one’s desire, and not what is desired”.
I am getting the feeling that these three misbegotten creatures would rather deny their guilt and serve prison time rather than admit what they did that night. How long before the faces they are now wearing start to tear, thin and wear away.
April 14, 2009 at 6:40 am
notreadytomakenice . . . bang on Man! Glad someone spoke up. I think you are right about all the commentators having no children, they don’t get it.
One question for all those vilifying AK and RS, no jury and/or judge have ever convicted them of anything. All the comments here come from people, who in the eyes of the law are as guilty as they are. Remember the Innocent until proven guilty thing.
April 14, 2009 at 9:55 am
Hi John,
Please don’t underestimate my intelligence or that of the people that come here to read and make comments, I remember the innocent until proven guilty ‘thing’. I also remember notreadytomakenice suggesting that this site be subpoenaed and my house taken for ‘slander’ perhaps you agree with those sentiments too? In which case I’d invite you not to comment here further. I really don’t have the time.
Nobody here is guilty of anything John except perhaps you, guilty of attempting to obstruct free speech by suggesting that not towing the pro-Amanda line is on a par with an accusation of murder.
Suggesting that people without children are incapable of understanding this case is ridiculous and stupid, do you think Frank Sfarzo has any children? I highly doubt it, yet something tells me that you and notreadytomakenice wouldn’t be expressing the same sentiments to him.
Run along now, Perugia Shock is probably missing your intelligent and logcial input.
April 14, 2009 at 11:36 am
For John and notreadytomakenice…. if you hate what is being said here don’t come and enter the discussions. If you look through (as you claim to have done) many people say they are not entirely convinced of AK and RS’s guilt but points are then discussed and debates occur- using intellilect rather than insults.
notreadytomakenice- your points where you effectively ‘shout’ show me the evidence, well if the evidence was there to prove they all had a discussion planning the murder we wouldn’t be having this discussion, but there are very few murders where those conversations are recorded! Why don’t you show us the evidence the conversations NEVER took place? Again it is not possible. What has been proven is that AK and RS have lied repeatedly- noone can say that hasn’t been proven. Your point about the sexed up behaviour in the lingerie shop is ridiculous- as I have written previously a close friend of mine died two days before Mez, not one bone in my body wanted any form of sexual activity in the WEEKS that followed. Even if I had just lost my virginity, having waited 23 years for it anyway (in RS’s case) I think I could’ve put my desire on the back burner whilst my new girlfriend dealt with the horrific murder of her flatmate in the room next to hers. Unless they were turned on by events I can not see how this behaviour came about so near to the event.
There are a few points I will agree with- it would be lovely to have a definite murder weapon for example and where are all the rags used to clean up, but so many of the points you make have been completely disproved by various sources (ie collection of evidence, I believe numerous experts in the US have watched the video footage and declared there was nothing wrong with how the data was collected, minus the bra clasp being left so long, and that still wouldn’t mean RS DNA had attached itself to the clasp in the following weeks)
I didn’t want to get drawn into any arguments etc, I believe if you disagree so strongly with the way a site is run then leave and don’t return. I cannot abide Franks blog, as the ‘banter’ is just disgusting and insulting to a serious case. However this website provides a place for serious and logical discussion, as does TJMK, for people with multiple theories and looking for clear and concise translations of what is occuring in court. Miss R regularly states she cannot claim to know what happened that night but offers up theories which are either accepted as possibilities or dismissed as improbable.
Mainly we want justice for Meredith. End of.
April 14, 2009 at 2:05 pm
Just wanted to put in a reminder, for notreadytomakenice: I believe I am the sole person who commented on this blog site, making references to suspicions that Amanda may have been an incest victim with her stepfather. I actually do not recall a single other blogger bringing this up. I am the sole culprit. Certainly, Miss Represented never encouraged me, and said it was so much speculation, and irrelevant. I now agree, I should not have speculated in that venue. I think my problem was, I have bought into the psychological theory which advocates that criminals have been severely abused and traumatized in their pasts. It is probably folly. In my desperation to view Amanda as a “victim” – part and parcel of my buying into the trauma theory – I thought of the stepfather, who seemed a vulgar man. In any case, your point is extremely well taken. I cannot speak of wherefore I know not. HOWEVER, if a slander suit were brought, it would have to be against me, not Miss R. I also do not own a home, and have nothing to be sued for. And I would offer a profuse apology, and admit I was in the wrong. In any case, it would have nothing to do with Miss R, who is owner of this site.
April 14, 2009 at 2:19 pm
Thank you SMK- a beautiful example of the type of people on the discussion board here. Honest and intelligent.
April 14, 2009 at 2:38 pm
Most appreciated, Ginny.
April 14, 2009 at 2:48 pm
Good on you SMK.
April 14, 2009 at 2:54 pm
Thank you kindly.
April 14, 2009 at 3:15 pm
Regarding Slander:
Most of us here state “in my opinion” before we go off speculating and use careful weasel words such as “seems”, “suggests”, “perhaps”, and “may” which doesn’t meet the legal test of slander, where a false statement is knowingly stated as a fact to injure someone’s reputation. Also, many of us use initials to indicate individuals/objects involved in the case which could refer to anyone or anything. Perhaps my posts are actually about the inner workings of a narcissistic assault rifle.
Regarding Children Credibility:
People posting on this site and the fine Perugia Murder File forum have children. I don’t think having children has a substantial effect on whether you think these defendants are guilty. They seem to have a different set of values and behavior standards than the typical college student. I have daughters in college and believe me, as much as they continuously call me for financial and emotional support, sometimes ranting for an hour without punctuation, I have an understanding of the psyches and values of young women in this time period. Compared to my daughters, AK47 is way, way out there.
“Out here on the perimeter, there are no stars”
Jim Morrison 1971
April 14, 2009 at 8:32 pm
Questions concerning early or adolescent psychological trauma in all forms are bound to come up in an investigation of the kind of sadistic crime Meredith Kercher suffered and as they come up are being, to my mind, very appropriately dealt with on this blog. Hard questions need to be asked and not distorted or glossed over. We Americans deeply value and talk often and loftily about freedom of speech. I would add to that the freedom and right to peaceably disagree. That means respecting the opinions, ideas and annoying things others might say. This isn’t just “The Exceptional American Way” either. It’s a deep human desire and value that all people feel. Having looked around at blogs about this case it seems to me that TJMK, Perugia Murder File Forum and Miss R’s are sincerely devoted to asking and trying to answer questions as they arise from the actual evidence being produced and discussed at the ongoing trial. Yes, there are some not very nice things being said sometimes about Amanda Knox and that is regrettable but inevitable because there is way too much of Amanda’s life and times out there for all to read and judge. And judging seems to be one of the things the human brain can’t help doing. If as is possible she has been misjudged, that is sad because she would have been so much better served by a Fort Knox family strategy of doing, saying nothing, taking the high road, no published personal papers, the fight being left to the lawyers and internal family concentration placed on helping her prove her innocence. Once you have a PR firm involved, the media who don’t bother to distinguish fact from fiction, people whose probable agenda is to publish money-making “Amanda, the True Story” style books, it becomes an uncontrollable mess and an endless source of anguish.
A question has come up about the people on this blog being unqualified to raise their voices as they don’t have children. I’ve raised several kids through the Seattle public schools and the University of Washington (which included an excellent study abroad program). Raising kids in America (which is all I know about) these days is a daunting experience and not for the faint-hearted. I worked every day during those years in the public school system with the teachers, principals and parents and saw and heard a lot that would make your toes curl. Most of what kids were getting up to I heard from teachers, drug counselors, my children and their friends, including some from private schools such as Seattle Prep, as my house was the main gathering area for general hanging out. I observed that many parents were AWOL and bought into the idea that once their kids hit Middle School at the age of twelve, thirteen they were kind of grown up, on their own handling their own lives including decisions about free time after school, homework, classes, clothing choices, friends, unchaperoned parties etc. All this at the age when the adventures of adolescence are going to be accompanied by immature decision-making and poor impulse control. Not surprisingly some of them at thirteen were busy little entrepreneurs making their first forays into the business world by baking weed-laced brownies for sale at school. Drugs and alcohol were easy to get through older siblings and many parents did not realise or want to admit their own kids were using their own stashes they thought they had hidden. In high school and beyond a far wider range of drugs was easily available including mushrooms, ecstasy, LSD. The most disturbing thing about this time was that the parents of the most sophisticated kid users were lying to themselves and everybody else, either by refusing to admit the problem or refusing to confront it. The reaction of parents whose kids were caught at school was usually to threaten legal action and/or stop fundraising activities. The reaction of parents to people like me who called kids on their actions and wanted to open up a non-threatening discussion about drug/alcohol use and how to deal with it preventively and together, was that their kids were good kids and would never do anything like that, delivered with the “death stare.” Total denial. End of conversation. These were usually the parents who if it became clear that their children were indeed involved in drug activity would aggressively threaten everybody with law suits etc. after laying the blame on some other kid or making some lame excuse for the offender like, “Honey, I know you didn’t mean to do this – you just made a mistake – we all make mistakes.” I’ve dealt with and listened to a lot of lying, cherubic-looking kids in my time. And I’m not saying my kids were perfect – there were rules, they were really bad liars and so any kind of confrontation about these issues always ended up with consequences and a really good conversation. By the time they got to the UW they steered clear of the Frat parties and knew which houses to avoid in the districts bordering the University.
Why do I bring this up? To set the record straight about people on this blog and because all parents and kids are dealing with these issues whether they like it or not and whether they are in denial about it or not. The stakes get higher as the “kids” become adults and have to take responsibility for their actions sometimes sooner than later. The students in the Perugia university district are dealing with the same stuff (sex, drugs and freedom) as those on American campuses and in AK’s case her much vaunted “intoxication with freedom” and seemingly careless actions have led to disastrously high stakes. I don’t want to go into whether I feel Amanda is innocent or guilty because I don’t know and want to wait for all the evidence to be presented. My “feelings” tend to blow in one direction or the other depending on what latest timeline, knife theory, phone log, witness statement, blood evidence etc. I’ve just read. This is an interesting blog to read because it deals with fascinating aspects of psychological profiling. Whether or not Miss R has made her mind up about Amanda’s guilt is neither here nor there. She raises many well informed and insightful points about the case and human nature and that is what she wants us to concentrate on.
As to the heartbreaking truth of all this, there isn’t a day goes by without all my distressed parental antenna waving up and around, feeling what this nightmare must be like for all the families involved. And yes, it is a many-layered tragedy as the lives of all involved have been forever changed. There is the primary, enormous and unrelenting suffering for the Kerchers as the truth stumbles along without hope of a beloved daughter being restored to them. The Knox and Sollecito families are also enduring their own pain, fear, loss and bewilderment in the eye of endless public scrutiny. And nobody seems to be out there for Guede at all. I don’t think we need to get into comparisons as to who is more justified or worthy to feel, this, that or the other – pain is pain and I am sorry for what they are all going through.
I know at some point somebody mentioned something about lack of real computer evidence because the data had been destroyed. I’d be grateful to know where I might find more out about this.
April 14, 2009 at 8:59 pm
Ana: Those are excellent points you make, very thorough and most poignant. I believe that part of what propelled me into the inappropriate idea that Amanda may have been abused, is that because I DO have adolescent children, I wanted to believe that they could never go Amanda’s route; that some trauma must have been the crux of her undoing. Adolescence which seems to go from about age 11 or 12 up to nearly the late 20s these days is fraught with danger. As you so aptly reveal, there is so much danger to drugs, sex, and all manner of wildness which parents deny. And you are correct in saying that there is the widely shared misconception, that they are somehow “on their own” as teens. Amanda repels and fascinates; above all, she frightens. What if there is nothing really “wrong” with her? Then she represents a terrible abyss which anyone may fall into. Thank you for all those remarks. And you are correct: Not only the poor Kerchers in their horrible and undeserved grief, but the families of the others involved as well, are ruined.
April 15, 2009 at 1:22 am
SMK: Thank you – and I’m sorry for the length of my comment. I’m not really a blogger and feel guilty for having taken up so much space here, especially as others are really good at making concise points with very few lines. But I could not let go the earlier remarks made with such negative flippancy that those commenting here must be childless and only those with children able to “understand the dynamics,” whatever that means. I too want to seize on any diagnosable mental condition or childhood trauma to help explain what was going on with the perpetrators (and no, I don’t buy the “lone wolf” stuff) of such a horrible crime. Want things nice and tidy. But I know nothing about the psychology behind such acts and take note of what Miss R and others have to offer about this area of speculation and thank them for telling us what fits the profile and what doesn’t.
There are no guarantees for the future where parenting is concerned. Don’t worry, as you know, all we can do is listen very carefully, be clear about our expectations, use tough love when necessary and try to model empathy as best we can. Your obvious love and concern for your children, and probably for other people’s children also, will see you through. After all, where kids are concerned, we’re all in this together, it’s a major group undertaking.
About AK’s possible guilt you say, “What if there is nothing really wrong with her? Then she represents a terrible abyss which anyone may fall into.” I don’t know if that’s true, but I think that is the uncharted, “anyone is capable of anything” territory where Miss R’s blog might be headed. Another reason to keep reading.
April 15, 2009 at 1:59 am
Ana: I did not find the length of your comments in any way tiresome; on the contrary, I found your post enlightening and most relevant. I thank you, and thank you as well for your kind and encouraging words; and I agree: it is important, educating and intruiging to see where this thoughtful and well- executed line of inquiry is taking us.
April 15, 2009 at 2:16 pm
The Survival Point
I don’t buy into the “anyone is capable of anything” perspective. Please don’t laugh at my hand-wrought psychology, but I believe it may be somewhat relevant to motive in this case. In my opinion, many of us are born with, or bred to have, a protective insight I call the Survival Point. The survival point is activated when we get to the edge of an allegorical cliff. At that point, people with a survival point say: “Woe, I have got to slow down, stop this now, and get my shit together”. People without a survival point are excited by the cliff, can’t stop thinking about it, and leap into the abyss. Many of us have had close friends that have leaped, and some don’t survive their injuries.
In this case, I suggest MK had a survival point and Ak47 doesn’t have one (yet). They met in Italy, where instantly attracted to each others vivacity, culture, beauty, and intelligence, and thus, became new best friends. They tried on each others faces, perspectives, and values. From Ak47′s viewpoint: feel her exhilaration at having an exotic new best friend, becoming immersed in an exciting new culture, and simultaneously capturing a new puppy boyfriend who worshiped her and wanted to create a world with her, albeit a twisted folie a deux world, but still something intense that was just theirs. Then MK’s survival point kicked on.
“When the music’s over, turn out the lights”
Jim Morrison 1967
April 15, 2009 at 2:19 pm
I would say that makes a great deal of sense, actually (survival point). That Meredith’s “kicked in” may have been an unbearable slight to AK’s view.
April 15, 2009 at 2:46 pm
I like your point Greggy, very interesting.
When I went to uni one of my housemates and I instantly hit it off and were inseperable for about a month, then I saw I needed to cool it off and she carried on steaming ahead. She seemed to then develop a hatred of me and went even wilder- she had a lesbian relationship briefly, then started a relationship with the quietest boy in our house who she could easily control. Before long she was doing crazy stuff, taking magic mushrooms etc and I would often lock myself in my room, quite scared due to the combination of her wanting to do wilder and wilder things and her growing hatred for me.
I haven’t thought about it for years but thinking now I would not have been surprised by anything she would’ve ended up doing. She came from a good area, parents still together and three brothers; the freedom at uni was just too much I guess and as you say she got to the edge of that allegorical cliff and I know she would’ve jumped to see what happened next. We were on the same course and no on eelse could believe my stories of what she was like- she was so lovely in public, day to day doing normal things, a very sweet, if not a little over excitable girl.
The whole case has just taken on new meaning to me.
April 15, 2009 at 2:49 pm
(Sorry to write about myself so much! Its just a way of relating what seems such a wild crazy situation and bring it to something which I can see as being a reality and not some horror movie. What must Miss R think of my psychological state!!- don’t answer that!)
April 15, 2009 at 2:51 pm
Between Greggy’s theory and what Ginny just said – “she seemed to develop a hatred of me and went even wilder” – that is very illuminating, for me. It could be that AK felt unbearably humiliated when her new friend became wary of her. In Ginny’s case, this all just became a memory, thank god; but AK perhaps reveals the true potential it actually held. Humiliation is a strong motivator in excitable and narcissistic types, as they feel the urge to redress any shame.
April 15, 2009 at 2:52 pm
Ginny: You may have missed my post above as you posted, but I think your story is very illuminating, and reveals much about AK – the key, in a sense.
April 15, 2009 at 4:53 pm
Greggy’s insightful comment about the Survival Point made me think of this paragraph from the Peter Popham interview with stepfather Chris Mellas:
What makes Amanda Knox tick? “I’ll give you an example,” her stepfather said. “When she was about 14, we were at a soccer tournament and there was this enormous puddle of chocolate-brown muddy water. And her coach looked at Amanda and said, ‘I bet you wouldn’t jump into that mud puddle. I’d give you five bucks if you did.’ And he hadn’t even finished the sentence and she went and bellyflopped into it and splashed everybody. These are the things that are just her; she has a unique quality to her.”
April 17, 2009 at 2:32 pm
I think “notreadytomakenice” has a good question and I think I have an answer.
The question is: “Where are the bloody rags from the clean-up?
I thought about this, as well as the unanswered question, “Why were Meredith’s clothes in the dryer still warm or still drying?”
It would have been very smart to use Meredith’s own clothes very conveniently located in her room for the clean-up and then to wash them so that they would not have the additional task of disposing of them.
The comment discounting the shopkeeper is irrelevant because his statement serves to contradict Amanda’s alibi that she was in bed with RS until late in the morning. He also stated that he did not see her purchase cleaning supplies “because he was not at the cash register that morning”. But another employee WAS and therefore could have sold it to her. I believe they also have a receipt from that store for cleaning supplies found in Sollecito’s flat.
April 17, 2009 at 2:41 pm
I think this is so very insightful and helpful. I’ve also been following truejustice.org which gives a TON of evidence in this case and mapped out in a very clear and concise way.
Here is where I’m troubled. What is the link between Rudy, Rafaello and Amanda? How did these three get together to plot this out. If I knew the answer to this, I’d believe their guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. Can anyone shed some light on this??
April 17, 2009 at 3:15 pm
Hi Anna,
Judge Paolo Micheli’s starting point was the hard forensic evidence that linked Amanda, Knox, Raffaele Sollecito and Rudy Guede to the crime scene on the night of the murder.
Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito haven’t been charged with plotting or conspiring to murder Meredith, so the prosecution don’t have to prove this. Besides, we don’t know whether Meredith’s murder was premeditated or not.
April 17, 2009 at 4:22 pm
Thanks Harry. But did Amanda know Rudy well before the day of the crime? Is there proof that they had met? This is where I’m lost. Besides the forensic evidence, what links Rudy and Amanda together?
April 17, 2009 at 4:43 pm
Hi Anna,
Amanda Knox and Rudy Guede have both admitted that they knew each other. Rudy and the boys in the apartment downstairs have testified that Knox turned up alone to smoke cannabis with them.
A witness, Fabrizio Giofreddi, testified at the trial that he saw Meredith with Knox, Sollecito and Guede a couple of days before Meredith was murdered. This is Stewart Home’s take on his testimony:
Fabrizio Giofreddi
He was also a pretty good witness, confident and unwavering in his testimony. He stated that on October 30th he parked his car right at the junction where Via Della Pergola begins and the street leads up to the piazza Grimana, which he described as being across from the pub “contropunto”.
He was sure of the date because when he was leaving he scratched the car next to him and left a note for the driver of the other car and wrote down the information (license plate etc.) and the date and time. He said that he arrived and parked around 5:00pm and saw four people coming from the driveway of the house walking on to the road.
He said that he saw Amanda, Raffaele, Meredith, and a black man which he believes was Rudy as he had seen him before, but could not be 100% sure. He did say he was 99% sure, but could not say “cento per cento” or “without any doubt”. He stated that he noted them so well he could even state what they were wearing.
He said that Meredith had jeans and a dark coat and high heels, Amanda had a red coat with large buttons (which he described as 60’s style) and jeans, and Raf had on a long dark jacket and dark pants. He stated that because the black person was behind the rest, he saw his face but did not see well what he was wearing. He then locked his car and went on his way. He pointed to both Knox and Sollecito in the courtroom and stated it was “him and her”.
(Note: oddly, he said he had seen Rudy before, giving out flyers in front of the University, but few have seen Rudy do that while many have seen Patrick do that many times)
Under cross-examination, he was also asked as with other witnesses “why did it take so long for you to come and tell police this information?” He stated that he was not following the homicide, and had no idea his testimony had any bearing on the case.
He told his Spanish professor, who was following the case religiously, what he had seen. and she told him to go and talk to the police immediately, which he did, albeit nearly a year later.
April 17, 2009 at 4:48 pm
Thanks so much Harry. That puts the last piece in the puzzle for me.
April 17, 2009 at 7:23 pm
Hey guys, interesting comments as always, and to those who are visiting/commenting for the first time, welcome! Sorry for the late replies, I have been away for a few days and super busy!
Greggy, I thought your ‘Survival Point’ idea was most enlightening and Skep thanks for the quote from Chris Mellas I think it helps us gain a better idea of what sort of person Amanda is. I’m not sure if I’m the only one who thinks diving into a puddle of muddy brown water because someone ‘bet you wouldn’t’ is pretty stupid, I certainly don’t think it can be brushed off as ‘kooky’ or ‘funny’ either, at least not in light of the present circumstances.
Hi amelia bedelia, with regard to the bloody rags from the clean-up I’m not really sure but I expect there has been some discussion on it over at PMF somewhere I find it’s an invaluable source. Neither am I sure about the washing machine and whether it was hot/warm when Filomena arrived but I’m sure details will emerge as the trial continues. It is certainly possible that some of MK’s clothes could have been used to clean up but I haven’t heard anything about clothes in the washing machine testing positive for blood and surely, had they been used to clean up (especially if bleach was used) they may have been stained or the material damaged in some way? I think it’s best to see what comes out about this during the trial.
Sorry for the quick replies I have so much work to doooooo!
Hope everyone had a lovely easter
April 18, 2009 at 3:11 pm
This may be off-topic, if so please excuse me. Miss Represented, I agree that Meredith Kercher’s murder must have been mainly motivated by sadism. And I appreciate your offering a forum for thinking about such an important topic, and giving it such thought and care–your research is also very helpful. I’m a therapist who often works with survivors of abuse and violence, and so I spend a lot of time trying to understand sadism in both everyday life and in extreme cases.
I know that Meredith Kercher’s murder holds my interest because when something like this happens I want to understand how and why. Whether or not such answers are to be had, I think there’s something profoundly difficult about grasping that people can be so destructive. This murder is just so sad, terribly sad.
I don’t believe the answer is in positing the violence and perversity in some “otherness”–mental illness, say–though I respect disagreement on this point. I think that, while a good definition of mental illness is any condition in which pain and destructiveness overwhelm a person’s psychological resources and defenses, sadism is a human problem, a moral problem. It’s a perversion of healthy parts of us–our instinctive pleasure in power, our wish to avoid pain. Sadism shows up in a wide range of forms, from playgrounds to extreme and extremely disturbing cases like this one.
I know from experience that it’s possible for loved, admired people with genuine good qualities to also commit disturbing, sadistic acts. I think that often when people are abusive or violent it’s because their natural potential for sadism has not been well integrated into a personality that can contain them. Sexual abuse by clergy is one tragic example of what can happen.
I’ve seen many cases in which people who were basically successful in life and evidently mentally healthy had also been very sadistic at some time, to someone. I’ve seen the same person express extremely dark, harsh, sadistic views–and yet be horrified of themselves, frightened of letting a fragmented self-knowledge knit together. I think it’s very common for abusers to convince themselves that the abuse never happened, or to fail to remember it because when they’re committing the actions they’re in a state of mind that’s very different from their everyday one. I think violence is often traumatic for the offender as well as for the victim, and that people who are capable of acting out extreme sadism often have fractured self-images that do not hold both sides of them together in view, even to themselves. So it’s not unusual for abusers to be outraged by accusations because “I’m a good person,” regardless of the evidence of their destructive actions.
Anyway, these are some of my thoughts about this sad, sad, matter. Thanks for the opportunity to share them.
April 18, 2009 at 3:34 pm
One more thought:
One of the most tragic aspects of abuse is the way the experience of a sadistic abuser can be internalized, especially when the abuse happens during childhood, is prolonged, and if help never came. Many victims of abuse are determined not to abuse others, to courageously break the cycle of the abuse they suffered, and yet unless they get help of some kind (professional or otherwise) they may be stuck with an internalized tendency to beat up on themselves, or an unwitting tendency to verbally or emotionally abuse anyone who tries to get close to them.
I think it’s seeing this dynamic, the way sadism can live on internally in survivors of abuse, that has convinced me that sadism needs to be understood compassionately–because I’ve seen good people who struggle with it. And I’ve seen people heal by growing in self-understanding, which helps people live with their feelings and own their actions. Morally, I think we all have the choice to try to take responsibility for ourselves, and one of the saddest aspects of Meredith Kercher’s murder is that no one is taking responsibility.
April 18, 2009 at 3:37 pm
Shy Reader: I am not a therapist, but as a philosopher, I find your remarks about sadism most interesting. Kierkegaard would agree with you, that it is a moral problem, and that much of what the world calls today “mental illness” or “personality disorder” (as defined in the DSM) would fall into existential inauthenticity and moral failure. Philosophers such as Kierkegaard, Schopenhauer, Jaspers, and Heidegger would understand exactly what you mean about “fractured self images” and the defense that ” I am a good person!”. As Kierkegaard would say, they are “playing hide and seek with themselves”. Bravo to you, SR, for posting such comments of profundity and moral suasion. The most difficult thing to an existentialist, is to face and own the true, deepest self. And to live creatively with it, rather than destructively. To you, shy reader, I say a hearty, “thank you!”.
April 18, 2009 at 3:41 pm
Shy reader: As is often the case, we may have posted at the same time. So now that I have read both your remarks, I would like to add to my own comments above, and to you say, absolutely, yes: There must be compassion for the moral failure of fragmentation, as it is so often caused by the same fragmentation in others, who have wreaked havoc on the abuser, who internalizes it. And so it spreads, the moral disease of being a multiplicity of persons. In a sense, society is responsible as we are all “our brother’s keeper” on the deepest level. Very illuminating remarks; thanks again.
April 18, 2009 at 4:28 pm
Thank you, SMK. I appreciate your philosophical perspective–I hadn’t thought of it that way, but it’s very helpful.
I’m going to be out of Internet contact for the rest of the weekend, so I’ll catch up on this thread when I return Monday night. Cheers to SMK, Miss Represented, and all–
April 18, 2009 at 4:31 pm
p.s. SMK, thank *you* very heartily for your remark about trying to live well and creatively with one’s truest self. ! That’s what it’s all about, I think.
April 18, 2009 at 4:34 pm
Agreed! Enjoy your weekend. I am interested in hearing what the jury will say upon seeing the cottage.
April 19, 2009 at 8:52 pm
Hi Shy Reader
Very interested to read your thoughts on sadism and abuse. I have seen therapeutic situations where the abused are burying their experiences, to the point that they almost becomes wiped from their memories. I have wondered if this is a clear choice AK could be making. Like a ‘make believe’ story she is telling herself about it simply not being true. I have seen how, being forced to confront the truth about what happened, an abused person can almost literally ‘shatter’ and ‘break’ – break down. It is the deep fear of annihilation that stops them from facing and talking about what happened to them. The effort of keeping this all hidden away is huge, and often the strain of keeping a lid on it leads to extreme actions to relieve the pressure and tension that builds up. Violence, drunken rages, self harm, overdoses, drug abuse. These are all ways of the human organism helping to regulate the intolerable strain of not looking at the truth of what happened. You know this of course.
I do wonder how long Amanda et al can continue with this, and I do think her parents are not doing her a service in continuing to help perpetuate her self-delusion. I agree with you about having a compassionate view. I am also compassionate towards her parents who, in my opinion, have an huge shock ahead. They are not ready to look at the truth yet either. Who can blame them.
I have become utterly convinced of AK’s involvement in this crime over a number of weeks. The Perugia Murder Forum is an excellent resource, and despite doubts and concerns on various matters I now cannot escape the conclusion that AK is deeply implicated in the crime, and is lying – possibly to maintain her own sanity. I feel such deep sadness about this case; and despite the sadness extending to Amanda and her life too, I can no longer deny that the evidence points very firmly towards guilt. Of something. There are just too many unanswered questions. ‘I can’t remember’ just won’t do.
Do look at the ‘Eyes For Lies’ website, which gives an excellent analysis of Amanda’s speech pattern in her voluntary statement to the court. I think you’ll find it interesting too, as a therapist. The ‘self-censoring’ is very apparent when the words are transcribed. When you listen to the audio of the statement it is so clear. She almost cannot bear make herself say the words she needs to say. So she continually checks herself and cuts her sentences short when referencing anything to do with herself; she is denying her own agency here, without a doubt.
The woman who writes ‘Eyes For Lies’ has a stunning record for acccuracy – apparently she’s one of only 50 people worldwide with the ability to detect deceit with pinpoint accuracy like this, I believe. She is also astute I think, as well as being able to spot the micro-gestures that give people away. Listening to the stress in Amanda’s voice at certain points of the statement is fascinating. Her fluency at other points is notable too. I found the analysis invaluable.
Anyway, thank you for your thoughts. Very interesting and insightful. Do you agree that there is heavy repression of trauma going on here, leading to voluntary amnesia?
April 19, 2009 at 9:07 pm
Shy Reader, here is the link for the article. Hope it is ok to post it here Miss Represented?! Just remove if not.
http://eyesforlies.blogspot.com/2009/04/amanda-knox-statement.html
April 19, 2009 at 10:10 pm
Hey Bard, of course it’s okay I found the article fascinating. Cheers
April 21, 2009 at 1:10 am
I found the Eyes for Lies piece on AK very in-depth and probing. The analysis is convincing. She talks much, but says very little (AK). She does seem to be self-censoring. Also, I think it is an excellent point the blogmaster makes, that AK keeps reiterating, ” I was trying so hard to tell the story. . . I kept trying and trying to tell them things. . . ” and that this in itself is suspect: If one has nothing to hide, it would not require so much effort, such mental gymnastics on her part.
April 21, 2009 at 9:47 am
Hi SMK
I agree the Eyes For Lies article was very interesting and in depth, I think she specialises in detecting deception in people who are accused of crimes, I also read her Casey Anthony article which was very interesting too. I agree when I heard the transcript it was a bit puzzling how she kept saying ‘I was trying to tell the story’, you don’t try to tell a story, you tell the truth, if the truth doesn’t fit with what you want the listener to hear then it can be equally implied that you are attempting to conceal something. There was a lot of ‘uh’s’ and ‘ah’s’ and ‘ums’ in there as well and from what I understand people often use a lot of them when they are nervous or when they are attempting to ‘construct’ a story, they use the ‘uhs’ as a kind of filler whilst they are thinking about what to say next. To be honest I found the whole thing quite hard to follow and it seemed impossible to discern what it was that Amanda was trying to say, I agree with Eyes, you’d think that after all the time Amanda had to think about what she was going to say and how important it was to get her side of the story across that she’d try and at least make a statement that clarified a few things, at least with regard to how she felt about what had happened.
April 21, 2009 at 12:27 pm
I don’t think AK47 is much of a challenge for the Lying Eyes Lady. AK47 can’t walk by a polygraph machine without it exploding: “I guess you are going to blame that on me, too!”
April 21, 2009 at 3:42 pm
Shy Reader,
I must thank you and that your patients/clients are blessed to have you.
Best,
C
April 22, 2009 at 2:32 pm
Hi again,
Thank you, Corinna, what a kind thing to say! (I hope you’re right!)
And thank you, The Bard. Interesting article. About Amanda Knox’s guilt–I guess all I can really say is that I agree that some real questions have been raised and not answered. It’s hard to understand the discrepancies in her story, which do really raise questions about her involvement in the murder. I can see why the “Eyes for Lies” writer finds Amanda’s statement less than credible, or at the very least odd and confusing. And I think it’s possible, as you say, TB, that if a young woman like Amanda were involved in such a murder, she might be traumatized by her own participation, and have psychological defenses against knowing what she’d done. I have certainly seen both abused and abusers show signs of the kind of trauma you describe. Very sad, I agree.
I don’t have any expertise at all in the criminal justice system, and I know that it’s a very uncertain thing to judge someone based on their representation in the media, so my speculating is very tentative.
April 22, 2009 at 11:21 pm
Very fair comment Shy Reader. I agree it is extremely hard to judge things when one does not have the client in front of you. I did, however, find the statement fascinating. I think she is concealing something, but what exactly that is I am not sure. And WHY I am not sure. I wonder if perhaps others are guilty of the fatal blows, but she feels so deeply implicated in the events leading up to that (the row about money?) that she cannot come clean. I keep trying to find ‘outs’ for Amanda, but as in this statement, she gives you so little to work with.
What a horrible mess. Young lives going to waste…
Thanks for comments everyone
May 2, 2009 at 10:35 am
Though all of your psychological theories and thoughts on this case are really interesting and could be possible, what’s really important in this (and any) murder case is the evidence. If there is no definitive evidence linking AK and RS to the murder scene then they should not be convicted of murder.
There seems to only be a lot of circumstantial evidence but nothing definitive linking AK and RS to this horrible crime.
Though AK’s behavior after the murder is callous and inappropriate, I don’t find it an indication of her being a sadistic killer. If she’d actually committed the murder, I don’t think that she would be so overtly callous and outspoken about it as she was in front of Meredith’s friends etc.
The Dateline NBC news stories on this case also pointed to the fact that some of the evidence was not gathered appropriately and according to guidelines followed by Forensics Specialists in the United States. This would make some of the circumstantial evidence collected in this case possibly unreliable and not definitive.
May 3, 2009 at 1:42 am
I am just now entering the discussion on this website, so apologize if what I have missed leads me to make inaccurate statements. I notice that SMK has apologized for suggesting that AK might have been incested by Chris Mellas. I have no more information about the issue than anyone else, but I don’t think this is a strange or inappropriate speculation. We have seen this man’s deplorable public behavior. He seems to have no impulse control. Edda Mellas’s public behavior isn’t much better. It’s easy for me to imagine her in complete denial about anything her much younger husband might want to do or did. Given the fact that he is so much younger than she is, she must have been worried about ‘keeping’ him – unfortunately, not an uncommon motive for some women being willing to overlook even the most egregious transgressions.
I used to work in battered women’s shelters, btw, and for years heard the most horrible stories imaginable.
Also, unfortunately, incest is not as uncommon as one would hope and is, of course, horribly damaging to victims in deep and lasting ways. They have suffered, usually repeatedly, the ultimate violation and betrayal by someone who is supposed to take care of and protect them. Amanda’s behavior, especially the sexual acting out, but also the lack of moral compass and pent-up rage, is consistent with that of an incest victim/survivor. Again, I have read nothing definitive – only that something was not right in that household.
I also want to add that I was surprised by some comments here suggesting that, because Edda Mellas or Curt Knox — or anyone else for that matter — seem somewhat “normal” in television interviews that it can be assumed that their children were not abused or subjected to serious physical, emotional or psychic trauma growing up. It worries me to think that some people believe that. I think the evidence indicates otherwise. I also don’t think that addiction to violent pornography, including bestiality, is normal.